The situation is totally different in SoccerProject. Finances are tougher for those on the top than for newbees.

<url>http://www.sokker.org</url>

You say that player numbers are being adressed, but that is by people who only moderate the game (the bosses are absent). I think the move giving subscribers a second account shows how little understanding these people have of what it takes to make a game successful. And even if they had, they do not have the proper access to do it. They are merely players of the game.

I think like most games once you get to a certain level (the top or near the top) then it can be hard to stay motivated with the game or any game for that matter. I'm still in the early stages of playing and I'm really enjoying it and there is a lot of scope for me to develop further which keeps me interested.

Player numbers is an issue which is being actively addressed outside of the 2nd accounts but like you say without more people playing then improvements can't be made in the longer term but that doesn't mean that the current game doesn't work really well in its current form.

We just need people to give the game a go and I'm sure that a lot of people will really enjoy it once they understand the ins and outs of it.

I can't comment on soccerproject as that is one that I haven't played but I might take a look to see how it compares.

Good to have a debate about these things and if it creates interest in itsagoal.com then that good enough for me.

Cheers

Maybe we are talking past eachother, my issue isn't with forum bans at all. But if you have been around the forums in itsagoal you know that managers do not necessarily only get a forum ban from whats written in the forums, they can get a total game ban. I gave an example earlier in the thread but as that post was censored here I unfortunately can't do it again, I think that is viewed as too personal info.

The finacial side in Itsagoal might be challenging up to a certain level, but when you have built a decent stadium it is no challenge anymore. The balance isn't right, its too hard for small clubs and too easy once you have a big club. This is just one of the problems the game suffers from. The financial side is far better in a game like Soccerproject, where you as a top club have to work hard all the time to stay afloat and it isn't too hard to climb up as a smaller club.

My opinion is that itsagoal suffers from not enough testing, not enough thorough work and unwillingness to change direction when something clearly doesn't work. If this had been different from the start the game might not have been on the brink of being put down. Since I posted 4 weeks ago the manager numbers have dropped by around 300 which is a lot for so few users. I wonder how much longer they can keep it going.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Cheers,

I think you misconstrued what I was saying about the forum bans. I said pretty much every manager that has been banned from the forums deserved to be banned from the evidence that I've seen but that's my personal opinion. Yes there is the odd manager who pushes it too far in the forums but this is no different to other games that I have played and I think it is a part of most games that could be tightened up.

People being banned from the game is a different matter and one that I can't comment on as I have no influence over this.

The developers not being actively involved is a known issue but, in my opinion, it doesn't overtly detract from the spirit of the game, despite the known bugs and issues.

I think the real thing that you are missing about the game is that it is not all about winning matches which you can do on any game including itsagoal.com – Finances are the key part of the game and that it what sets it out from the crowd in my opinion.

I respect your views above and agree with some of the points that you make but I will state clearly again that this is still the best online football management game that I have played and it would take something special to change my opinion.

As a aside, do you still play the game or are you basing the above on past experience.

Cheers

Games most days isn't unique to Itsagoal. SoccerProject has the same. I am mystified as to how you can be constantly challenged, the game has 4,400 clubs but only about 2,400 managers. Which means that almost half the clubs are vacant! Apart from that, the level of divs below the prem are very poor. The divisional structure of the game is a huge failure, which results in boredom until one reaches the prem.

“Yes there are issues with bugs but these are all known and fully explained within the help files and forums and most managers are more than willing to help new starters learn about the game and settle in.”

How do you know that all bugs are known? Only those which can be visable to the managers would be known by others than the developers. It doesn't give much trust for the game when even those are left unfixed year after year. Furthermore, a new manager won't see it like you do. One shouldn't have to search through the forums or PM other managers to use the transfer market as it should work. Like with the incorrect message “Your bid must be higher than your previous bid”. Or what about your bid mysteriously falling out, and later you discover that this bug happens if you withdraw and bid again.

“The launch of the 2nd accounts has benefitted the game as there are more active managers which makes playing games a lot more interesting. The 2nd accounts are also very well policed which prevents cheating, unlike in most other games where it goes unnoticed and give a lot of managers an unfair advantage.”

LOL. The total number of managers have DROPPED since the subscribers got a second club to play around with. Despite the prop up of total manager numbers this caused. The subscribers get benefits from having a second club of course, double the chance in the SC. Another club to try out game strategies with (thats what a game like this is about) and double the chance in the Super Cup. And another club to explore “game secrets” with. But the majority of users in Itsagoal isn't the subscribers, so the move failed miserably.

“All games also have an issue with vacant or bots teams but at least the bots in itsagoal.com are competitive unlike in say Hattrick where you will regularly win games 8-0, 9-0 etc which is totally unrealistic.”

It isn't the score in the easy games which makes a game competitive. It doesn't matter if an easily won game comes out as 2-0 or 8-0. Its about the level of the opponents you regulary meet in the competitive games. It isn't rare for teams to go unbeaten season after season in itsagoal in the league at the very top level. That simply doesn't happen in Soccerproject for example.

“On the forum bans, pretty much every manager who has been banned deserves to be banned. They are given plenty of notice about swearing, promoting other games, trying to provide links to other games/sites etc etc. I'm happy with the way the forums works and the managers on itsagoal.com are the most interesting, entertaining managers that I have encountered on any site.”

Well, Itsagoal has banned managers from the game on account of whats written in the forums. Whats up with that? The forum doesn't have anything to do with the game. Its enough to get on the wrong side of an arrogant moderator (plenty of those) and you are marked. And how can you say every one deserved to be banned?

I am not surprised the game isn't more popular, afterall the owners have given up on it already. Believe me, the difference is huge to a game where the developers communicate with the users and actually do work with the game! And where criticism in the forums isn't met with arrogance , or newbees aren't met with witty comments and a know-it-all attitude.

Yes there are issues with bugs but these are all known and fully explained within the help files and forums and most managers are more than willing to help new starters learn about the game and settle in.

The launch of the 2nd accounts has benefitted the game as there are more active managers which makes playing games a lot more interesting. The 2nd accounts are also very well policed which prevents cheating, unlike in most other games where it goes unnoticed and give a lot of managers an unfair advantage.

All games also have an issue with vacant or bots teams but at least the bots in itsagoal.com are competitive unlike in say Hattrick where you will regularly win games 8-0, 9-0 etc which is totally unrealistic.

On the forum bans, pretty much every manager who has been banned deserves to be banned. They are given plenty of notice about swearing, promoting other games, trying to provide links to other games/sites etc etc. I'm happy with the way the forums works and the managers on itsagoal.com are the most interesting, entertaining managers that I have encountered on any site.

If you want a challenge then itsagoal.com is the best and most realistic online football game by an absolute mile. It just takes patience and a bit of time to read through the help files and forums to understand the game and if you are still unsure then there a plenty of managers who are more than willing to help.

I would suggest that anyone reading this who has a genuine interest in football should give itsagoal.com a try and you will soon realise that all of the other games that you have been playing are boring and too easy in comparison.